In the name of Allāh,
the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Peace and Blessings of Allāh on Mohammad.
Allāh–the Glorious and the High,
Lord of the worlds
Mohammad–who brought the world
to our feet and eternity to our arms
“The likeness of Jesus with Allāh
is truly as the likeness of Adam.
He created him from dust,
then said to him, Be, and he was.
(This is) the truth from thy Lord,
so be not of the disputers.
Whoever then disputes with thee
in this matter after the knowledge
that has come to thee, say:
Come! Let us call our sons
and your sons and our women
and your women
and our people and your people,
then let us be earnest in prayer,
and invoke the curse of Allah
on the liars.
Surely this is the true account,
and there is no god but Allah.
And Allah! He surely is the Mighty,
the Wise. But if they turn away,
then surely Allah knows the mischief-makers”
CHRISTIAN-MUSLIM DEBATE–WHY NEEDED?
(See also Atheist-Muslim debate, Is Islam peaceful)
In the Bible God calls His devotees to govern their faith not by miracle, mystery or magic but by reason:
“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool”–(Isaiah 1:18).
As reason is the Door to God; whatever goes against reason could not be Divine (and human assumptions and inventions that goes against Divine Purity could only lead to Hell-Fire). .
Muslims have debated with Christians that Jesus is not God and that Jesus did not die on the cross. But there is no need for Muslims to debate Christians. The matter is clear and simple:
1. THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD:
-Allāh God identifies Himself in the Qur’an as Allāh.
Christians’ God, whatever His name is (YHWH), did NOT identify Himself in the Gospel.
-Muslims’ Qur’an is original, it was memorized and written down at the time of its revelation.
Christians Gospel is NOT the original (See Bible corrupt & obsolete).
-Allāh God tells us He revealed the Qur’an to Mohammad.
There is NO place in the Gospel where the Christians’ God, whatever His name is (YHWH), says He revealed the Gospel to Jesus.1
-Muslims’ religious doctrines –Unity/Purity of God; Prayer; Zakaat/Charity; Fasting and Hajj– are clearly expressed in the Qur’an and explained by the Prophet Mohammad and are conducive to reason.
Christians’ religious doctrines –Trinity,2 inherited sin and vicarious atonement –are NOT clearly expressed or explained by Jesus and are NOT conducive to reason. These doctrines are assumed.
Evidently, Christians, lacking original Book and clearly expressed Divine doctrines, cannot prove their claim that Jesus is God.
What need then do Muslims have to debate Christians?
-Allāh God named the religion of Muslims, Islam.
Christians’ God, whatever His name is (YHWH) did NOT name Christians’ religion.
-Allāh God named His devotees Muslims.
Christians’ God, whatever His name is (YHWH) did NOT name the followers of Christ.
-Allāh God tells us in His Qur’an He raised messengers among all people and gave them acts of devotion; (thus God is known by a name according to the language of the people).
-Christians’ God, whatever His name is (YHWH) did NOT.
-Allāh God tells us in His Qur’an that He will guard the Qur’an from corruption. (There are millions of Muslims who know the Qur’an from memory, which is a safeguard against attempt(s) to ‘corrupt’ it.
Christians’ God, whatever His name is (YHWH) did NOT.
-Allāh God tells us in His Qur’an He made us into different tribes and colors and languages that we may know each other.
Christians God, whatever His name is (YHWH) did NOT.
-Allāh God tells us about matters regarding science.
Christians’ God, whatever His name is (YHWH) did NOT.
Evidently, Christianity cannot be superior to Islam. What need then do Muslims have to debate with Christians?
-Was Jesus conceived by a woman? YES. (See Jesus-had s-x with his mother).
-Was Jesus given birth in the same manner as other children? YES.
-Was Jesus nursed by a woman? YES.
-Did Jesus eat, drink and answer the calls of nature? YES.
-Did Jesus possess any power of his own? NO.
-Did Jesus know about anything except those which God gave him knowledge? NO.
-Did Jesus pray to, and worship, God? YES.
Did Jesus die? YES (see Jesus-birth miracle or mechanix?).
How then is Jesus God3 Who is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent?
What point then is there in Muslims debating religion with Christians?
Allāh God instructs Prophet Mohammad and Muslims:
“Call to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and argue with them in the best manner –(Qur’an 16:125).
The best manner of this calling is as demonstrated by Prophet Mohammad in his discussion with the Christians of Najran (Christians of Najran & Prophet Mohammad).
Regarding this discussion between the Prophet and the Christians in which the Christians claimed that Jesus is God. After convincing the Christians that Jesus is not God, Allāh revealed to the Prophet:
“But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come! let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women, and our people and your people, then let us be earnest in prayer and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars”–(Qur’an 3:61).
This is a guideline for Muslims in their religions dispute with Christians: to pray for the “curse of Allāh, God, on the liars”.
(Trinitarian) Christians are to pray:
“I (we) bear witness that Jesus is God and one in a Trinity –God confined Himself in the womb of Mary, a woman whom He created, lived in her womb for nine months; nourishing on her liquid through a navel and cord; He emerged from her vagina, nursed from her breast and was circumcised; He ate, drank and answered the calls of nature– and Jesus is also the son of God –as fatherhood requires the union of sperm and ovum– and mankind inherited sin from Adam/Eve, and God sent Jesus to die for the sins of the world: this is the absolute truth; if this is not the absolute truth I (we) pray for the curse of God on me (us), for eternal punishment, without forgiveness, ever.
(Non-Trinitarian) Christians are to pray:
“I (we) bear witness that Jesus is the son of God –as fatherhood requires the act of procreating, God implanted His seed in Mary, thus making Jesus the son of God– and mankind inherited sin from Adam/Eve, and God sent Jesus to die for the sins of the world: this is the absolute truth; if this is not the absolute truth I (we) pray for the curse of God on me (us) for eternal punishment, without forgiveness, ever.
Muslims are to pray:
“I (we) bear witness that there is no God but Allāh; He is the One and Only; The Eternal, Absolute; He has no partner or associate; He begets not nor is He begotten; and there is none like Him; Jesus is no more than a messenger of Allāh –this is the absolute truth; if this is not the absolute truth I (we) pray for the curse of Allāh, God, on me (us), for eternal punishment, without forgiveness, ever.
Notably: Regarding the above verse “Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves – then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie.”
While this verse invites the Christians to invoke Allah’s curse upon anyone who was lying, it does not invoke this curse upon the Christians’ innocent family.
As noted in the discussion with the Prophet, the Christian leader was speaking on behalf of the entire delegation. (Which is even done in modern societies).
As Islam holds only those of mature intellect to be capable of rendering decision–(Qur’an 4:6; Abu Dawud Vol. 3, #’s 4384-4389), it is obvious that these sons and women would be mature. And as they have joined with their menfolk to whom they assign leadership to speak on their behalf of the faith they have chosen to follow, thus, the decision/prayer of their leader is binding on them as if they themselves have spoken/prayed on their behalf.
Thus, these partaking women and sons do not “suffer for a lie” their leaders uttered, they are/were fully cognizant of the topic under discussion.
If the leaders include immature family members in their group these immature ones would not be held responsible for the action(s) of their leaders, as per the teaching of Islam as noted.
The Qur’an nowhere accepts that people are suffering because of Adam’s sin and that persons do bear the burdens of others (except those who knowingly lead others astray).
Neither does the Bible –God or Jesus– teach these heinous doctrines of original/inherited sin and vicarious atonement.
That Jesus is not God see Jesus as God; Jesus & God are one; Jesus-Alpha & Omega.
As proven, whereas Islam is superior to all other religions, Judaism, Sikhism and Hinduism are superior to Christianity and Jesus was a Muslim and taught Islam.
Christians also claim the Qur’an/Allāh God says for Muslims to ask/seek guidance from the Gospel/Christians, see Allāh says follow Gospels–a dilemma for Muslims.
2. THAT JESUS DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS.
“And for their saying: We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh, and they killed him not, nor did they cause his death on the cross, but he was made to appear to them as such. And certainly those who differ therein are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge about it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for certain: Nay, Allāh exalted him in His presence. And Allāh is ever Mighty, Wise”–Qur’an 4:157-158).4
That Jesus did not die on the cross is evidenced by the Gospels which Christians claim is the “inspired” word of God, and by Paul, whom Christians follow more than they follow Jesus:5
- prayers of the righteous are always answered–(James 5:16; Psalm 22:24; 34:15-19; John 9:31; Matthew 7:8-9);
- God always answered Jesus’ prayers–(John 11:41-42).
- Jesus prayed to be spared from death:
“Then saith he (Jesus) unto them (disciples), My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt;” “and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground”–(Matthew 26:38-39; Luke 22:44);
- Jesus prayers to be spared death were answered:
“(Jesus) Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared”-(Hebrews 5:7).
Allāh God says about Jesus: “they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them”–(Qur’an 4:157).
Jesus only seemed dead. This is how God answered Jesus’ prayers and saved him. Obviously Jesus went into a coma. In those days no one checked for pulses, if you’re limp you’re dead.
- After the alleged crucifixion and resurrection Jesus had his disciples examine him to verify he was not spirit, as the resurrected is, but was of flesh and bones: a mortal–(Luke 24:38-39). The resurrected “are (spiritualized) as the angels”–(Matthew 22:23-30. Luke 20:34-36). Jesus had flesh and bones: he was HUMAN.
So who is wrong/lying, Christians and the so-called historians and authors, or Jesus?
If Christians and the so-called historians and authors are right that Jesus died on the cross, the Christians Son of God and God is wrong that he did NOT die on the cross.
So who will you believe and follow, the “inspired” word of God and Jesus or Christians and their entourage of ectopic experts?
(For more on this, and that the Church knows there was NO crucifixion and resurrection, see Jesus-inherited sin to ascension).
In debating with Christians Muslims are giving credibility to Christians unGodly claims that God incarnated Himself as Jesus –that God took human form and subjected Himself to human conditions– and that God loaded Adam’s sin onto innocent, helpless and morally and mentally non-competent babies and had Jesus murdered to free us of this sin of Adam that He unjustly loaded onto us; (Christians attribute double injustice to God -putting Adam’s sin onto babies and then onto Jesus – and makes God complicit in murder).
Muslims are to tell Christians who want to debate us that we will debate them when they produce the original Hebrew/Aramaic Gospel according to GOD; NOT those four books “ACCORDING TO” Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (and moreover “King James Version” or other “versions.”.
Aside from Trinity/God-incarnate which renders God to animal level -nourishing in the womb, emerging from the vagina, eating, drinking and answering calls of nature.
Even a fool knows it is the crest of cruelty and injustice to knowingly pin Pete’s sin onto Gus and to even execute Gus. What sane mentality then would make such monumentally grotesque and obscene ascription as inherited sin and vicarious atonement to God that impeach the Purity and Perfection of God? (See Allāh says follow Gospels–a dilemma for Muslims).
Jesus said to his perplexed followers: “Having eyes, see ye not? And having ears, hear ye not?”–(Mark 8:18).
If Jesus was around today he may have added another dictum to his followers : “having heads reason ye not?
“I am Allah, the Seeing.
(This, Qur’an, is) a Book which
We have revealed to you (Mohammad)
(that you may) bring forth men,
by their Lord’s permission,
from utter darkness into light
to the way of the Mighty,
the praised One;”
“Say: If you love Allah, follow me:
Allāh will love you,
and grant you protection
from your sins.
And Allah is
(Qur’an 14:1; 3:30).
1. According to the Gospel, at the baptism of Jesus (God needs to be baptized?): “And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased”–(Matthew 3:17; also Matthew 17:5 at Jesus-Transfiguration).
It is rather strange that this “A” voice is taken to be God’s considering Jesus, who Christians worship as God/Son of God, says about God: “Ye have NEITHER heard his voice at ANY TIME, nor seen his shape”–(John 5:37).
Since no one has “NEITHER heard” God’s voice “at ANY TIME, nor seen his shape” who else but Satan has power to throw his “voice” around like a ventriloquist?
Perhaps Satan was having more fun with the Christian’s God/Son of God, as he had earlier, as the hear-saying Gospel writers said, tempting him in the wilderness–(Matthew 4; Mark 1:12-13; Luke 4). God/Son of God needs angels to “minister unto him”? Even though he has all power in heaven and in earth?–(Matthew 11:27; 28:18).
2. Trinity was invented/concocted by the Chursh 300 years after Jesus’ mission ended. Prof. Abdul Ahad Dawud B.D. –“the former Reverend David Benjamin Keldani, B.D., a Roman Catholic priest of the Uniate-Chaldean sect”– notes about the Christian religion:
“More than sixteen Ecumenical Councils have been summoned to define the religion of Christianity, only to be discovered by the Synod of the Vatican in the nineteenth century that the mysteries of the “Infallibility” and the “Immaculate Conception” were two of the principal dogmas, both unknown to the Apostle Peter and the Blessed Virgin Mary! Any faith or religion dependent upon the deliberations and decisions of General Synods –holy or heretical– is artificial and human. The religion of Islam is the belief in one Allāh and absolute resignation to His will, and this faith is professed by the angels in heaven and by the Muslims on earth. It is the religion of sanctification and of enlightenment, and an impregnable bulwark against idolatry.” -(Muhammad in the Bible, pp. 191-192. Emp. added).
Reason would dictate that human invention cannot give life in heaven.
3. In the Gospel of John, Thomas, on examining the wound marks on Jesus, remarked: “My Lord and my God”–(John 20:28).
Christians take this saying of Thomas to be proof that Jesus is God. Even in the face of all the other clear evidence showing that Jesus is not God.
However, when Thomas’ words are taken in its context it reveals that Thomas’ remark was clearly one of astonishment. Here are the relevant verses (John 20:24-28):
“But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came (after his alleged resurrection). The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”
Clearly, Thomas’ words are one of “realization” that the person is indeed Jesus and not a ghost as Jesus’ followers initially believed Jesus to be.
That Thomas’ statement is one of astonishment is made clearer by Luke 24:36-40 who says:
“And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.”
Doubtlessly, Thomas’ saying is one of “realization” that the person is indeed Jesus and not a ghost as they thought Jesus to be. Which is a common occurrence when a disbelieving person is given proof would exclaim “O My God’ or ‘My God’ or “Good God’ etc, that what he was told is indeed so.
4. Allāh did not say He put Jesus’ face/resemblance on another person (and had that person killed) as one translator stated: these words are NOT in the Qur’anic/Arabic text. (For Allāh exalting Jesus in His presence see Jesus-birth miracle or mechanix?
5. That Christians follow Paul more than they follow Jesus. That the “wages of sin is death,” inherited sin and vicarious atonement were devised by Paul and institutionalized by the Church:
“St. Paul had thought of and adopted the doctrine of Jesus Christ having died on the Cross and being resurrected afterwards, and this became the confirmed doctrine of the Christian Church.”
“The Christian Church had caused a General Council of the Church dignitaries to be appointed in A.D. 325 in which certain doctrines were made to be the foundation of the Christian Church, and belief therein was made essential for one to be Christian. This is known as the Nicene Creed. Under this, the confirmed doctrine of Atonement may be explained as follows:
(i) Adam (and Eve) committed a Sin, and this Sin was inherited by their descendants.
(ii) The attribute of “Justice” in God demanded that a sin must be punished, for the wage of Sin is death.
(iii) God sent his son Jesus Christ to this world, so that he may die on the Cross an “accursed” death, and after spending some time in Hell, atone for the Sins of the human race, and then be resurrected again.”– (See:
Christianity-man made to live forever;
Jesus-inherited sin to ascension;
Allāh and Jesus or Paul).